FWiOO o Europejskich Ramach Interoperacyjności 2.0
- Dodano: 1 grudnia 2009
- Wprowadził: BoBsoN
- Komentarze: 189
W związku z organizowaną przez MSWiA konferencją poświęconą zagadnieniom interoperacyjności w Polsce, Fundacja Wolnego i Otwartego Oprogramowania opublikowała swoje stanowisko w sprawie EIF (Europejskich Ram Interoperacyjności) w wersji 2.
(…) Fundacja Wolnego i Otwartego Oprogramowania przygotowała stanowisko, w którym wyraża głębokie zaniepokojenie sformułowaniami zawartymi w projekcie dokumentu „European Interoperability Framework for European Public Services (EIF) – Version 2.0″.Tym samym Fundacja w pełni popiera stanowisko Free Software Foundation Europe (FSFE), wyrażone w liście jej Prezesa – p. Karsten Gerloff – w którym FSFE sugeruje odrzucenie tego dokumentu i pozostanie przy ustaleniach poprzedniej wersji EIF.
Cały tekst stanowiska można znaleźć tutaj.
Fundacja Wolnego i Otwartego Oprogramowania realizuje szereg celów, które pozwolą na popularyzację idei wolnego i otwartego oprogramowania w Polsce. Obszar działań obejmuje organizację konferencji tematycznych i seminariów, działalność wydawniczą i publicystyczną. Jednym z większych sukcesów Fundacji jest program WiOO w szkole, który spotkał się z szerokim odzewem.
Więcej informacji: http://www.fwioo.pl/index.php?id=138
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Wszystkie autorskie niusy w serwisie publikowane są na licencji Creative Commons Uznanie autorstwa 2.5 Polska.
Czyli, w wielkim skrocie FWIOO jest strasznie niezadowolne z faktu, ze ktos we wladzach przedklada zdrowy rozsadek – na przyklad mozliwosc wygodnej wymiany dokumentow – nad ideolo, ktore odgornie narzuciloby koniecznosc zastapienia istniejacych rozwiazan nowymi, malo popularnymi i w instytucjach panstwowych, i w firmach, i posiadajacymi zupelnie nowy wachlarz niedorobek i bledow.
No jakze mi przykro.
[OT]
tak, Trasz, tak ….
Ta Twoja wspaniała możliwość wymiany dokumentów ujawnia się zwłaszcza w momencie kiedy ma się w zakładzie/biurze różne komputery (wiekowo) i różne np. wersje Worda. POWODZENIA ….
@Sas: Nadal wyglada to nieporownywalnie lepiej, niz w przypadku OOo. Chyba, ze mowisz o jakims Wordzie 97, ktory byl popularny, gdy OpenOffice jeszcze nie istnial.
Nie tylko. Format MS Office 2007 daje się odczytać za pomocą wtyczki w MS Office 2003, ale OIMW w MS Office XP już nie – w pracy się na ten problem natykam co jakiś czas. W firmach nie kupuje się ciągle nowych wersji programów.
@kocio: Otworz dokument napiasany OpenOfficem z roku 2007 wersja OpenOffice'a z 2001 roku. Ojej, nie da sie? No jakze mi przykro.
Ale my również mówimy o np. sprawie Janosika
tzw. pakiet zgodności działa także na ms office xp, więc może on odczytać pliki docx, xlsx i inne podobne.
Ja spotkałem się jednak z wielokrotną sytuacją, gdy w pliku stworzonym pod ms office 2003 nie była wyświetlana w nagłówku i stopce grafika, jeżeli plik ten odczytywany był przez ms office 2000.
Jedynym wyjściem było ponowne stworzenie dokumentu i wklejenie wcześniej skopiowanych do schowka grafik do nagłówka i stopki.
Ms office jest w tej chwili w odwrocie i jedynie utrzymuje pozycję dominującą dzięki temu, że różne organy państwowe generują swoją "radosną twórczość" przy pomocy produktów firmy rodem z Redmond.
Przyjęcie jako obowiązującego standardu ODF równałoby się kresowi hegemonii tego pakietu (mógłby się on utrzymać w niektórych miejscach, dzięki temu, że istnieje wtyczka od SUNa dodająca do niego obsługę plików ODF).
@trasz z tym, że aktualizacja oo.o najczęściej nie generuje kosztów licencji, a braki w zgodności starych rozwiązań są takie same jak w mso, poza tym aktualizacja oo.o nie sprawia, że trzeba przeszkalać na nowo pracowników, bo ktoś wpadł na super pomysł zmiany interfejsu, który generuje tylko więcej klikania.
@przemo_li: Sprawa Janosika byla o tyle inna, ze tam bylo tylko jedno oprogramowanie, ktore obslugiwalo format. I nie chodzilo tam o "Otwarty Standard", tylko o otwarcie specyfikacji – a to zupelnie inna rzecz (cos jak "Free Software" vs "free software"). Zauwaz, ze FWiOO nie walczy o dostepnosc dokumentacji do formatow zapisu i protokolow – walczy o narzucenie koniecznosci uzywania tych formatow zapisu i protokolow, ktore spelniaja pewne okreslone kryteria. Formaty zapisu MS Office – mimo, ze sa powszechnie znane i implementowane – tych kryteriow nie spelniaja, a ODF – owszem.
@trasz jest jednak "drobna" różnica. Ze starym Wordem czasem trzeba żyć, bo po prostu nie ma kasy na nowy. OpenOffice.org po prostu aktualizujesz do nowej wersji za darmo.
+ koszty wdrożenia
eeee…tak czasem cie czytam i zastanawiam sie czy ty w ogole kiedys widziales jakie problemy robi zamkniety soft/format gdy trzeba sie nimi wymieniac juz nie tylko miedzy pracownikami ale tez miedzy innymi firmami.
Tobie ktos placi za pisanie tych "przemyslen" ?
@darn: Praktycznie kazda firma uzywa Microsoft Office. I wymiana dziala. W przypadku "otwartych formatow" tak nie jest – bo raz, ze ODF jest niedostandaryzowany, wiec arkusza kalkulacyjnego z OOo nie otworzysz prawidlowo w, dajmy na to, Lotusie (byl nawet tutaj nius na ten temat), a dwa, ze OOo i tak domyslnie zapisuje w formacie niestandardowym (w sensie, w wersji ODF-a nowszej niz ustandaryzowana).
Aha. Czyli: chcesz przeczytać, kup MSO.
Ta. To "praktycznie każda" jest ładnie naciągane, szczególnie w PL. Także w PL np praktycznie całe MF stoi na Open Office. To samo US. Dziwnym trafem 100% moich klientów używa OOo lub OOo + MS Office. Dziwnym trafem duże dotcomy migrują na OOo (bo w serwerowniach już dawno linuksami/*bsd stoją).
No ale traszowi pewnie MS płaci za trolowanie na forach, więc czego się dziwić brakom w wiedzy i z palca ssanym statystykom
Pomijam fakt, że przy wymianie informacji nie chodzi o to czego używa większość w danym momencie, tylko o to by każdy w dowolnym momencie bez ponoszenia kosztów na patenty, opisy formatu, prawa autorskie, itd mógł informację odczytać.
@trasz:
"praktycznie każda" – oznacza że nie wszystkie, a w warunkach polskich śmiem twierdzić, że jest to mniejszość. I są to albo firmy Skarbu Państwa – gdzie o kasę się nie dba, albo są to inne przedsiębiorstwa budżetowe.
Firmy prywatne bardzo ostrożnie wydają kasą i uważnie liczą każdą złotówkę (co nie znaczy, że nie kupują MSO – ale tylko wtedy jeśli jest to opłacalne).
@trasz: standardowo na twój potwornie słaby argument powtarzany regularnie przy tego typu niusach odpowiem swoim standardowym.
Problemu nie ma z OD bo wystarczy skorzystać z przeglądarki google-docs.
@Tomasz Woźniak: Ktore bardzo czesto nie dziala poprawnie, z powodu pominiecia kilku rzeczy przy standaryzacji ODF-a.
@trasz: znacznie mniej problemowo póki co sprawia goole-dosc nawet ze standardami MSO, niż produkty jakie ludzie znają (oczywiście firmy MS)- przykład: otwarcie OOXML (MSO2007) w MSOXP. Więc wybacz, ale wyrażasz tylko własną opinię, która podobnie jak z prognozami o Adnroidzie- ma mało wspólnego z rzeczywistością.
A czytałeś to stanowisko że tak się wypowiadasz? W projekcie jest propozycja żeby uzyskiwać interoperacyjność przez stosowanie homogenicznych rozwiązań…
"Poniżej tego poziomu komentarze nie będą zagnieżdżane" hehehe…
Dobrze, że ktoś pilnuje zbaraniałych polityków.
Politycy nie muszą się znać na niczym poza polityką, o ile słuchają rad ekspertów niezależnych a nie lobbystów.
I niby skad tych niezaleznych ekspertow chcesz wziac?
@trasz: np. wzorem amerykańskim z think-tanków sponsorowanych przez państwo.
Wiesz, obok RAND (który też kryształowy nie jest) "think-tanki" to po prostu sposób na podanie lobbingu politycznego w pseudonaukowej oprawie. W Polsce takich też masz od groma.
@Budyń: jedna różnica- w US są porządnie dofinansowane i mające jasny cel- dbanie o interesy US.
Wybacz, ale póki co nie wymyślono niczego lepszego.
@Tomasz Woźniak: Tak, tak. Pozwole sobie zacytowac Wikipedie: "RAND was set up in 1946 by the United States Army Air Forces as Project RAND[12], under contract to the Douglas Aircraft Company". Faktycznie, niezalezni eksperci, z definicji nie zwiazani z korporacjami.
@trasz: Po pierwsze to działa- czyli wspierają własne podwórko. Po drugie- ci eksperci najczęściej pracują właśnie w firmach prywatnych i nie są oderwani od rzeczywistości jak pracownicy naukowi. To jak nazwał budyń- taki naukowo podszyty lobbing, ale póki co nie ma nic lepszego.
Zanim zaczniesz to krytykować to zobacz jak to działa i jak jest skonstruowane- naprawdę, uwierz mi- na wszystkim się nie znasz.
@Tomasz Woźniak: Alez ja doskonale wiem, jak to dziala. Chodzilo mi o zwrocenie ci uwagi, iz twoja opinia, jakoby powinni to byc "niezalezni eksperci, a nie lobbysci" nie ma zwiazku z rzeczywistoscia – i sam, w powyzszym komentarzu, to przyznales – eksperci jednak pracuja w firmach prywatnych i jest to "naukowo podszyty" lobbying.
Nie zbaraniałych. Oni chcą, żeby to wyglądało na niekompetencję i głupotę. W rzeczywistości to inteligentni przestępcy i zdrajcy.
Człowieku, zastanów się czasem zanim coś napiszesz, bo jak czytam Twoje komentarze, jak żywy staje mi przed oczami gimnazjalista z przystojniakiem w berecie na koszulce.
A jak tobie polecam zastanowić się nad sentencją (podaję także wersję źródłową)
„Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely”
ang., władza demoralizuje, a. władza absolutna demoralizuje w sposób absolutny.
Etym. – John E. E. Dalberg Acton, historyk ang. (1834-1902) w Historii wolności (1907 r.).
Może wtedy wyzbędziesz się tej gimnazjalnej naiwności.
@mby7930: A z kolei taki Marks twierdzil, ze przemysl to zlo i fabryki nalezy nacjonalizowac. Tez tak uwazasz? Jesli nie – uzasadnij.
dobrze zadzialali, ze w to wierzysz. sami sie pilnuja, kurza nac…
Hmm… Przeczytałem newsa. I nadal nie wiem o co chodzi. Nawet bardzo ogólnie.
Nie było prościej wkleić samego linka do pełnej informacji? W końcu, kto będzie chciał, to i tak kliknie.
Linki do pełnej informacji są – wystarczy chcieć poszukać
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