80% krajów nie poparło standaryzacji OOXML
- Dodano: 29 lutego 2008
- Wprowadził: michuk
- Komentarze: 151
W Genewie zakończyło się właśnie spotkanie BRM, które zgodnie z procedurami ISO miało za zadanie uzyskać kompromis w sprawie przyjęcia proponowanego standardu Office Open XML. Zdecydowana większość delegatów odniosła się negatywnie do procesu standaryzacji OOXML i nie zarekomendowała jego szybkiej adopcji jako standardu ISO.
Siedmiodniowe spotkanie ponad 100 delegatów z 32 krajów miało bardzo trudne zadanie: przeanalizować 1100 komentarzy (po eliminacji duplikatów) i wydać rekomendację dla ISO i krajów głosujących na temat przyszłości ewentualnego standardu. W ciągu tygodnia udało się rzetelnie omówić i zagłosować nad jedynie 20 komentarzami. W środę, kiedy jasne było już, że celu BRM nie uda się osiągnąć, postanowiono głosować nad komentarzami jako całością, dając możliwość każdemu delegatowi ustosunkować się również do wybranych konkretnych komentarzy.
Każdy delegat miał następujące możliwości: zaaprobować, odmówić aprobaty, odmówić rejestracji albo wstrzymać się. Z 25 delegatów typu „P”:
- 4 zagłosowało za,
- 4 przeciw,
- 2 odmówiło rejestracji,
- i aż 15 wstrzymało się.
Zgodnie z dyrektywą 9.1.4 ISO/IEC JTC1 tylko głosy członków typu „P” liczą się w podsumowaniu. Jednakże Alex Brown, sekretarz spotkania, zdecydował z góry — niezależnie od przepisów — że w tym konkretnym głosowaniu głosować będą mogli wszyscy członkowie. Z siedmiu pozostałych:
- 2 zagłosowało za,
- 0 przeciw,
- 2 odmówiło rejestracji,
- 3 wstrzymało się.
W związku z tym oficjalnie 98.4% dyspozycji zostało przyjętych stosunkiem głosu trzy do dwóch.
Warto dodać, że wg. Computerworld, Polska i Czechy jako jedyne zagłosowały za przyjęciem wszystkich poprawek. Przeciw zagłosowały m.in. Stany Zjednoczone i Malezja.
Czy to oznacza tryumf OOXML? Oczywiście nie. Technicznie jest większość, bo zasady ISO nie przewidują liczenia głosów wstrzymujących się. Ale przebieg spotkania i fakt, że aż 80% delegatów nie poparło standardu w praktyce oznacza odrzucenie OOXML przez te kraje. Jasnym jest też, że spotkanie grupy dowiodło, że format OOXML nie nadaje się do rozpatrywania w trybie Fast Track, który wymusił Microsoft, pragnąc jego szybkiego przyjęcia. Nie udało się przedyskutować nawet 10% komentarzy, co w oczywisty sposób wypaczyło sens BRM.
Jaki jest ciąg dalszy? Członkowie mają teraz miesiąc na przesłanie oficjalnego głosu odnośnie adopcji formatu Open XML. Trudno jednoznacznie stwierdzić jakie są szanse powodzenia.
Więcej informacji: http://www.consortiuminfo.org/standardsb...9055319727
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Nie wszyscy jednak uważają spotkanie BRM za porażkę. Brian Jones w poniedziałek zamierza celebrować. "Proces naprawdę działa (do bardzo fajne!)"
Przestrzegamteż przed tytułami nt. tego spotkania w Genewie na IDG, Gazecie, DobrychProgramach i innych portalach, które zapewne niedługo po nas opiszą całą sprawę
Pan Matusow idzie nawet dalej. Coś czuję, że w najbliższych dniach czeka nas wojna na oświadczenia prasowe związane z tym BRM.
jakiś trik prawniczy MS zastosuje?
Ta decyzja BRM nie ma żadnych konsekwencji prawnych. Jest (ma być) wskazówką. Istotne będą głosy krajów.
Może prowokacja CBA w Komitecie Technicznym?
Czy mi się wydaje, czy treść newsa można trochę niegramatycznie ująć w trzech słowach "ponieśliśmy ogromny sukces".
Ech… Zacznę chyba szukać plusów standaryzacji OOXML.
to są jakieś?
Jedyny jaki jestem w stanie sobie wyobrazić, to że taki obrobiony OOOXML w przyszłości będzie można zharmonizować z ODF oraz chińskim UOF i połączyć w jeden standard. Ale tego obrabiania to jest na dużo dłużej niż na Fast Track…
Więc niech MS opracuje poprawki do ODF na podstawie OOXML i się zgłosi.
Lepiej się konwertuje do niego binarne pliki office podobno;P
80% krajów nie poparło, ale wystarczy prosty rachunek by wiedzieć, że 85% nie sprzeciwiło się…
Tak jakby mówili: "Możemy to poprzeć, ale chcemy większych łapówek."
Takich niezdecydowanych kretynów powinno się natychmiast odsunąć od procesu standaryzacyjnego. Nie po to ktoś wysyłał te komantarze, ktoś wyfiltrował duplikaty, a potem odczytywano je i dyskutowano, żeby ci idioci mogli powiedzieć "nie wiem"/"wszystko mi jedno".
Głosy powinny być tak/nie + ewentualny brak oddania głosy wykluczający z dalszych prac.
@munk: Ci którzy się wstrzymali niekoniecznie powiedzieli "wszystko nam jedno". Może chcieli przez to powiedzieć "proces FastTrack nie daje możliwości stwierdzenia czy OOXML nadaje się na ISO". Oczywiście w takim przypadku sensowniej jest odrzucić poprawki i zmusić Microsoft o ECMĘ do przejścia przez cały proces jeszcze raz, ale już z zachowaniem standardowych procedur.
80% głosujących jedynie stwierdziło, że im wszystko jedno. Jakby tak optymistycznie patrzeć na świat, to możnaby z niewielkim wysiłkiem dojść do różnych ciekawych wniosków… które chciałem ntutaj napisać, ale sobie podarowałem
Inne komentarze:
http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2008/02/29… http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20080229…
z ciekawości: delegaci z Polski byli tam obecni?
tak
i głosowali na tak?
Wg Computerworld polski przedstawiciel głosował za: http://preview.tinyurl.com/32f2po
Ile mu zapłacono?
pewnie duzo mu placa, ale chyba nie za to
konkretne glosowanie : )
Czegos tu nie rozumiem. Czy glosowanie nie powinno byc niewazne skoro złamano jego zasady(mniejsza o to na czyją ko<span style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);">rz</span>yść)?
Owszem.
Ale być może jeszcze nie zauważyłeś jak działa prawo i moralność na zachodzie. Prawo jest tworzone tak, aby w większości sytuacji było na ich korzyść. A kiedy nie jest, robi się wyjątek.
To dotyczy "wolnego" rynku, praw UE, …
Ciekawe kto głosował "za" przy tak przytłaczającej liczbie negatywnych i całkowicie uzasadnionych komentarzy.
I ile im zapłacono.
To, że coś Ci się nie podoba nie daje Ci prawa do obrażania ludzi.
Wg mnie to, ze ktos jest politykiem, uprawnia wszystkich
do znieslawiania go, obrazania, podejrzen, etc. To sie
nazywa pregierz. Mala proba zadoscuczynienia, za te korzysci,
ktore przy przyslowiowym korycie czekaja na naszego pupila : )
Zniesławienie – występek polegający na pomówieniu innej osoby, grupy osób, instytucji, osoby prawnej lub jednostki organizacyjnej nie mającej osobowości prawnej o takie postępowanie lub właściwości, które mogą poniżyć ją w opinii publicznej lub narazić na utratę zaufania potrzebnego dla danego stanowiska, zawodu lub rodzaju działalności.
Zagrożony karą grzywny, karą ograniczenia wolności albo karą pozbawienia wolności do roku na podstawie art. 212 § 1. Kodeksu karnego. Sprawca podlega grzywnie, karze ograniczenia wolności albo karze pozbawienia wolności do lat 2 jeżeli pomawia inną osobę za pomocą środków masowego komunikowania (art. 212. § 2. K.k.).
(za Wikipedią)
Uważam że jest to porażka organizacji ISO. Jak już ktoś chce do niej należeć to powinien wypełniać jej cele. Być za albo przeciw. A nie tak nie wiadomo co.
Jak jakaś baba w ciązy
W sensie organizacja ISO, nie @hh
Przestałeś już bić swoją dziewczynę/żonę? Tak albo nie, a nie tak nie wiadomo co.
brutalne…
Ktoś zna nazwisko delegata z Polski?:> Czyżby z PKNu?
Prawdopodobnie była to Elżbieta Andrukiewicz, Przewodnicząca KT182, a według danych ze strony PKN, również pracownik ENERGO-TEL S.A. – Warszawa.
Polska za… w sumie to niczego innego się nie można bylo spodziewać, a tak wogóle to ta cała organizacja ISO to nie ma najmniejszego sensu bytu po przebiegu i wynikach tego głosowania.
ROTFL. No jasne, skoro ISO chce przychylic sie do wniosku konkurencji firmy, ktora popieramy, to ISO nie ma najmniejszego sensu bytu.
Nie dlatego że nie lubimy M$ ale dlatego że:
a) wbrew fałszywej nazwie nie jest to wolny format,
b) nawet gdyby OOXML wypełniał definicję wolnego formatu, to sam fakt przyjmowania drugiego analogicznego rozwiązania jest zanegowaniem całego sensu istnienia standaryzacji. Faktem jest bezspornym że OASIS był pierwszy a M$ przegrał w tym technologicznym wyścigu. Jego pech.
A przeanalizowałeś wszystkie odpowiedzi Microsoftu/poprawki jakie wprowadził w związku z komentarzami? Poza tym, jeśli OOXML i ODF mają być otwartymi standardami, to nie ma problemu z wprowadzeniem obydwu do jakiegokolwiek programu. Dlatego sądzę, że istnienie jednego nie powinno wykluczać drugiego.
To przeczytaj to:
"istnienie dwóch nie powinno wykluczać piętnastu kolejnych"
Też prawda, nie?
@ww: Oczywiscie, ze jest to wolny format. Moze to co najwyzej nie byc "Otwarty Format", glownie dlatego, ze jedna ze stron w sporze zdefiniowala nazwe "Otwarty Format" tak, aby znaczylo cos zupelnie innego niz otwarty format, malymi literami, rozumiany zgodnie ze zdrowym rozsadkiem i zasadami jezyka.
-
Co do sensu istnienia dwoch dokumentow – IIRC problemy (jesli kompletne pominiecie kwestii mozna nazwac problemem) ODF z dostepnoscia (accessibility) i tym podobnymi pozostaly nierozwiazane. Wiec istnieja istotne techniczne powody, aby ustandaryzowac cos lepszego.
-
Nie bylbym soba, gdybym nie przypomnial o ostatniej rzeczy – to, co ISO ustandaryzuje, ma znaczenie wylacznie pijarowo-marketingowe. Nie ma znaczenia technicznego. Tak to juz jest z oprogramowaniem ze standardy ISO sie, pomijajac dwie pierwsze warstwy OSI, olewa. Przyklad pierwszy z brzegu: PHIGS, o ktorym nikt juz nie pamieta, zastapiony m.in. OpenGL-em.
Teraz już nie ma znaczenia czy jest wolny czy otwarty, bo jest przegrany. W rozstrzygającym momencie nie był ani wolny ani otwarty i dlatego wygrał inny.
Co do istnienia dwóch dokumentów: Dwa standardy to dwa razy więcej pracy przy ich implementowaniu i dwa razy więcej straconego czasu. Zadawanie sobie zbędnego trudu i trwonienie czasu to czysta głupota.
Zdaję sobie sprawę że Małomiękki ma problem bo zamiast w porę zacząć implementować ODF stracił czas na bzdury i teraz jest do tyłu, ale jego problemy jakoś mnie nie rozczulają.
Moim zdaniem standaryzacja ISO ma także bezpośrednie znaczenie praktyczne. Np. jest w stanie spowodować że państwowa administracja będzie miała obowiązek akceptowania określonego standardu.
Skoro wolno zdublować standard ISO Małomiękkiemu to dlaczego nie mają mieć do tego prawa kolejne firmy? Co tam firmy… A jeżeli pan Heniek z Pcimia także zażyczy sobie mieć własny standard ISO to dlaczego ma go nie dostać, skoro dostał go jakiś tam Ballmer? I tak oto będzie ogólnie śmiesznie i wesoło. Ciekawe tylko kto zdoła te setki standardów zaimplementować?
Skoro wolno zdublowac de facto standard Sunowi – a wlasnie to z ODF zrobiono…
Mógłbyś to rozwinąć, bo coś mi chyba uciekło… Naprawdę Sun zdublował otwarty standard dokumentów ISO? Czyli że zdołał przepchnąć standard konkurencyjny wobec ODF? Kiedy to się stało? Nigdy o czymś takim nie słyszałem…
OOXML nadal sierotą…?
Jakiej adopcji?!?
dobre!
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